Curse

Skuld · May 09, 2007, 12:22 AM // 00:22

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I'm just wanting PVE to also get the same privileges as PvP since PvP will be getting the PvE privileges soon.

Like, the majority of the resources pumped into it? Oh wait

boko · May 09, 2007, 12:36 AM // 00:36

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Originally Posted by I MP I

QFT Thats pretty much it really.

Yea... after some thought, PvE is as good as dead anyway with the grindfest... And HA is broken too ...GvG is interesting but impossible with an almost dead guild...

Anet wants to reward a broken PvP system as Hero battle...and add to that the criticism is prolly gonna end on deaf ears...I wonder why i bother anymore ...

/shrug ... Let Anet do what they want. Only time will tell if it was good or bad.

agrios · May 09, 2007, 12:47 AM // 00:47

Im not very fond of the idea but...lets face it...there is IRL big cash prizes for PvP, and stupid minipets for PvE. So..wich community do you guys think ANet values the most?

Its sad for me to see this coming, since Im mostly at PvE. And, besides some people thinks, not all PvErs like grind. I dont. If I wanted to grind I would be playing other games.

I see the prices of rare stuff in PvE reaching the skies right after they implement this..

unienaule · May 09, 2007, 01:10 AM // 01:10

Keep the flames down. Saying "QQ more" isn't a valid comment/response.

defrule · May 09, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Hopefully, I won't be GvGing nor will I be playing HB.

ichigo_panty · May 09, 2007, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Well, let hope that high end weapon skin will not be rewards at ATS. A clear line must still be drawn between PvE and PvP.
PvP->Runic Blade, Cystalline, Legendary Blades, etc
PvE->Torment,Zodiac, etc

If they include exclusive new skins to PvP, it will be great too.

I have a feeling that those Design A Weapon's Weapons will be included as rewards.

Ahrims Assassin · May 09, 2007, 02:01 AM // 02:01

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Originally Posted by boko

Exactly.

Fame should be limited to PvP and armor and skins to PvE. Period.

^Agreed. This idea of A-Net's is completely insane.

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Who wants to look good in PVE? LoL.

You're being sarcastic, aren't you? I sure hope so.

Bryant Again · May 09, 2007, 02:09 AM // 02:09

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Originally Posted by ichigo_panty

Well, let hope that high end weapon skin will not be rewards at ATS. A clear line must still be drawn between PvE and PvP.
PvP->Runic Blade, Cystalline, Legendary Blades, etc
PvE->Torment,Zodiac, etc

If they include exclusive new skins to PvP, it will be great too.

I have a feeling that those Design A Weapon's Weapons will be included as rewards.

The ATS Q&A said the PvP rewards skins won't be unique to PvE.

Does-it-Matter · May 09, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

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Originally Posted by Series

Ok Anet, now give Phoenix emotes for people who earn the Vanquisher title.

And Phoenix title (which has a specific PvP implication) has what to do with Vanquisher?

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Why are they giving skins away and not ACTUAL weapons?

A) Avoid selling (and I know you said make them customized, which leads me to my next point...)

B) So any and all of the PvP-only characters can be entitled to it. Same with every other aspect of PvP (armor, weapons, insignia are all re-creatable.)

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Why should you only get the reward if you roll a PvP only character and not if you use a roleplaying character in PvP?

PvE characters already have access to it. Plain and simple. It's not like they are going to make it easy to obtain (they've already said that), so you (general usage) don't need to worry about all the hard work you put into getting your skins to look cool suddenly being worthless.

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Customize em to prevent selling if you want, it doesn't really matter.

It does though. PvP characters have the ability to be "re-rolled," it's an integral part of the format. Having a customized weapon that isn't re-creatable would deter this.

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It is ridiculous that once again rolling a PvP only character in 2 seconds benefits you more than spending hundreds of hours equiping your roleplaying character to make him PvP worthy.

You know the company's motto has been skill over time since day one, right? And more to the point, how does it "benefit" you? Does your Crystalline Skin or Zodiac weapon make you any better of a fighter? Oh, I know! FoW armor comes with +20 Ego, right? That helps you win... right? (Not an attack on FoW armor, or those who put the effort into getting it, just the mentality that vanity makes you a better player.)

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If you can PvP with roleplaying characters, why don't they get to reap the rewards as well?

The same reason PvP characters don't get drops (HoH chest withstanding.) It just doesn't apply. And you CAN reap the rewards of "having a cool skin," go out and find it.

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And now PvE players are getting their own set of skills. Has it happened? Yes, I think it has. It seems Guild Wars is no longer one game, but two completely separate ones. Or at least it will be in the near future. Ugh.

What's changed other than you can CHOOSE between farming/buying a skin or farming points to unlock a skin? The amount of effort is still there, you are still able to do it the original way, you just have more options now.

PvP characters can still do Aspenwood and all that. PvE characters can still do RA/TA/GvG/HA/AB/HvH. It's not like your PvP character is suddenly grounded and forbidden to speak to Little Jonny PvE any more.

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Great for the uber "hardcore" elitists who think "PvP" or "PvE" is the greatest, horrible for people who actually enjoyed both. GG GW.

You might want to move a little more to the left, I don't think you completely centered yourself on your soap box.

Back to the point, seriously, you're over-dramatizing this. You still have the same opportunities, just another option now. Is that a bad thing? I mean hell, the community asked for this, and now it's going to be implemented. That's... what people want, right?

---

OT: More and more I seriously envision ANet as these tireless firefighters who attempt to put out the worries and angers of the community only to watch them spread this way or that, regardless of what they do.

Gamer 1: We want to be able to unlock skins!

Gamer 2: ANet doesn't listen to the community!

ANet: Here, you can now unlock skins!

Gamer 1: Thanks!

Gamer 2: I guess you guys DO listen, cool.

Gamer 3: What the hell!? Where's the reward for PvE now? We want them separate!

Gamer 4: We don't want this! ANet doesn't listen to the community.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't, I guess.

Orbberius · May 09, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

hooray, 2 year late
its not a bad thing though, as long as the cool skins are in

Series · May 09, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

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Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

And Phoenix title (which has a specific PvP implication) has what to do with Vanquisher?.

And unique skins have what to do with PvP only characters?

Stuff like 15k armor exists solely to show accomplishment in PvE. Emotes for accomplishment in PvP. Now you can get all of it with just PvP only characters, but PvE players can't get it all in PvE, can they? If it was unique skins, that would be something else entirely. The phoenix title has nothing to do with vanquisher, but neither does 15k Kurzick Armor in PvP only characters.

There are roleplaying characters and PvP only characters. Note that Roleplaying isn't Roleplaying Only. PvP Only is supposed to have the limitations, which is why so many people worked so hard to get their Roleplaying Characters PvP ready.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Does-it-Matter

Gamer 1: We want to be able to unlock skins!

Gamer 2: ANet doesn't listen to the community!

ANet: Here, you can now unlock skins!

Gamer 1: Thanks!

Gamer 2: I guess you guys DO listen, cool.

Gamer 3: What the hell!? Where's the reward for PvE now? We want them separate!

Gamer 4: We don't want this! ANet doesn't listen to the community.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't, I guess.

Yes, because a few people wanting something justifies destroying the whole foundation of the game that has been there for day 1 (referring to the concept of playing PvE, then moving your character onto PvP). Maybe I should start demanding that Anet turns GW into an FPS. They care so much about every individual customer, I guess we will see it in a week? Who cares how much of the fanbase you alienate, as long as some guy has been made happy, am I right?

No, because just because people want or don't want something, Anet should use judgment- not just player demand- to decide things.

I bet if Anet fixed the game instead of releasing a bunch of unnecessary stuff, the "fire" would have been put out a while ago. Your analogy is the equivalent of saying "Even if putting the fire out starts a new one in somebody else's house, we did our job".

Why should a person be rewarded for using a character limited to PvP to PvP but not rewarded for using a roleplaying character? There is no reason for it. Why should my Necromancer not get that cool staff skin, when I earned it on him, because he is a PvE character? There is absolutely no reason for it- none that you can justifiably defend of course.

Ok, here fixes your problem with people who delete PvP characters a lot- make the item customized on an account-wide basis. All better.

That was tough >_<

Does-it-Matter · May 09, 2007, 03:14 AM // 03:14

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Originally Posted by Series

And unique skins have what to do with PvP only characters?

Stuff like 15k armor exists solely to show accomplishment in PvE. Emotes for accomplishment in PvP. Now you can get all of it with just PvP only characters, but PvE players can't get it all in PvE, can they? If it was unique skins, that would be something else entirely. The phoenix title has nothing to do with vanquisher, but neither does 15k Kurzick Armor in PvP only characters.

Well, when I wrote that I was referring to Rank Discrimination or HA team assignments.

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There are roleplaying characters and PvP only characters. Note that Roleplaying isn't Roleplaying Only. PvP Only is supposed to have the limitations, which is why so many people worked so hard to get their Roleplaying Characters PvP ready.

The limitation is that it can't go to PvE areas, hence PvP only. That doesn't mean it can't have things PvE players have.

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Yes, because a few people wanting something justifies destroying the whole foundation of the game that has been there for day 1 (referring to the concept of playing PvE, then moving your character onto PvP).

Let's try not to be overly dramatic here. Whole foundation of the game? Come on. The "foundation" of the game is the company motto, Skill over Time.

And anyways, the "few" is about as "few" as those calling for a HA change to kill count and what not. Vocal minority, or actual majority, I'm not here to decide.

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Maybe I should start demanding that Anet turns GW into an FPS. They care so much about every individual customer, I guess we will see it in a week? Who cares how much of the fanbase you alienate, as long as some guy has been made happy, am I right?

"I can only please one person a day, today is not your day, tomorrow doesn't look good either."

Everyone will not like every change.

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No, because just because people want or don't want something, Anet should use judgment- not just player demand- to decide things.

I think there is a quote of Gaile saying almost that exact thing. Don't worry, that's how they think.

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I bet if Anet fixed the game instead of releasing a bunch of unnecessary stuff, the "fire" would have been put out a while ago. Your analogy is the equivalent of saying "Even if putting the fire out starts a new one in somebody else's house, we did our job".

No, I'm saying that the big picture is there is always a fire. Every change will have a group that like it and a group that doesn't.

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Why should a person be rewarded for using a character limited to PvP to PvP but not rewarded for using a roleplaying character?

Can you acquire said item else where? Like say, from a monster that drops it?

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Why should my Necromancer not get that cool staff skin, when I earned it on him, because he is a PvE character? There is absolutely no reason for it- none that you can justifiably defend of course.

Name a skin, I'll tell you how you can find it without using PvP rewards. Now tell me all the ways a PvP character can get them.

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Ok, here fixes your problem with people who delete PvP characters a lot- make the item customized on an account-wide basis. All better.

Everything else about PvP is about to be re-rolled and re-created. Why would you want this one to be different and not follow the "foundation" of that part of the game?

lyra_song · May 09, 2007, 03:37 AM // 03:37

I really dislike this idea. I like this game because it is both pve and pvp. I think the game needs to mash the two together more.

Sadly the mob has spoken and Anet chose the easy way out. PvE skills and prestige skins in PvP.

This change is very disheartening, and takes away reason for me to continue to play some of my less completed characters.

Playing a loaded up PvE character with prestige armor with proper runes, got all the skills, and all the weapons to be competitive in PvP vs a UAX'ed account takes a much much longer investment in time.

Even with the addition of skill tomes, theres still the significant hurdle of money and time.

This essentially breaks the integral idea that "PvE is for vanity, PvP is functionality only".

Damn you Anet. Get some RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing balls and stop listening to the stupid ideas just to please the mob.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
On a side note, if i had my way, a pvp character would only have 1 armor skin, since you can spec them to any insignias/runes you want.

nevelo · May 09, 2007, 03:54 AM // 03:54

It should be real tradable items. A PvP character interested in skin is using real items currently anyway. That way, a PvE character who PvPs can also potentially benefit. While at the same time, this would give PVP chars another way of obtaining some of those ridiculously priced skins, without having to farm PvE and amass a lot of gold for them.

For the life of me I can't figure what REDENGINEGO means exactly. Grr!

arcanemacabre · May 09, 2007, 04:03 AM // 04:03

So when Anet decided there to be PvP-only characters, that wasn't a split? You're fooling yourselves if you think PvP and PvE were ever "together" and "linked". 'Twas only an illusion, sorry to say. This isn't Anet giving in to anything, only them finally accepting the reality of the two very different worlds.

BTW: I am someone who actively enjoys both PvP and PvE. I just have the clarity of vision to realize they are two different games that happen to share the same mechanics.

xshadowwolfx · May 09, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

Umm, I read the previous three pages and I still don't get it... Is there anything wrong with this idea?

I PvE and PvP. How would adding skins to PvP chars affect the game? It wouldn't. Everyone will complain about it now, but in reality it has no negative affect on the game. I doubt getting these skins PvP wise will take any less time and skill as it would in PvE.

Skyy High · May 09, 2007, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Holy crap. So much whining over someone else getting pretty armor to wear while PvPing. Note that said armor can only be obtained through currently 2 types of PvP, both of which are very competitive, and we don't even know how much of a time commitment will be required to obtain these items. You're all acting like ANet just gave FoW armor to every PvP char on the Battle Islands.

As for what PvE chars get that PvP chars don't have:
- 27 titles (plus the PvE/PvP Faction title)
- access to 3 continent's worth of content and areas, including 5 elite areas, which they have just added an alternate method of access to (not that anyone shows up much to the Deep or Urgoz, after all that whining)
- custom pets (dire or hearty evolutions only available through PvE
- minipets and birthdays - given that PvP chars are disposable and not likely to last a year without rerolling
- festival events and the majority of the special weekend events besides (2/3 of the most recent weekend events from the past couple of months were PvE inclusive or PvE only, I believe someone tallied them 2 weeks ago)

Seriously, get over yourselves. The most elite PvP players will now be able to distinguish themselves in both title and looks. Everyone else will still look like crap, which means your PvE char will still look nicer than 99% of PvP players' chars. Not like most of the people complaining about this play PvP enough that they should care what PvPers look like.

lyra_song · May 09, 2007, 04:26 AM // 04:26

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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

So when Anet decided there to be PvP-only characters, that wasn't a split? You're fooling yourselves if you think PvP and PvE were ever "together" and "linked". 'Twas only an illusion, sorry to say. This isn't Anet giving in to anything, only them finally accepting the reality of the two very different worlds.

BTW: I am someone who actively enjoys both PvP and PvE. I just have the clarity of vision to realize they are two different games that happen to share the same mechanics.

I always considered PvP-only characters to be for the sole purpose of PvP. As such, they are restricted to functionality in pvp, not vanity. In the beginning, their functionality itself was even MORE limited, and ive been a longtime advocate of making PvP characters just as functional as any PvE character.

For me, rolling a pvp char was a testbed to what my existing PvE char was going to build for. What elite should i cap next? what skill combos are fun? Balthazar faction was free and unlocked skills let me experiment without spending money and skill points.

Yes they are different worlds. Different playing styles, different mindsets, and you need to change how you think when you switch from one to another. But to me PvP and PvE are intrinsically and should always be linked, even with fundamental differences in style, since they run on the same engine, skills, and combat rules.

Imo, Anet created a wonderful game, but merely attracted the wrong audiences: The 1337 PvErs who hate PvP and the 1337 PvPers who hate PvE.

Really......The PROPER step Anet should have take is to allow PvE characters access to ALL UNLOCKED things in PvP. Since this essentially ELIMINATES the need for PvP characters (except for PvP only accounts).

Skyy: Imo, PvP chars should be given full access to all 3 pet types. Its an issue Anet keeps forgetting about.

fenix · May 09, 2007, 04:54 AM // 04:54

You guys don't understand the main point. You can ONLY get Reward Points if you are good. This isn't an issue of crappy players getting awesome skins, a) You'll need to be VERY good to win Reward Points in GvG AT's, and also a good HvHer and b) It will take LOTS and LOTS of points to get a reward.

This isn't going to be widespread, for the majority, PvE characters will look much better, as they won't be able to get Reward Points. There should be less complaining about what us PvPers are getting, we've had the worst part of the deal for months and months now, they're only JUST fixing PvP after 2 years, and making it what it should be.

Oso Minar · May 09, 2007, 05:26 AM // 05:26

I only support this if PvE characters can also create weapons for themselves. If you want to even out the playing field between PvE and PvP, then DO IT. Give use PvE'ers fully customizable armor sets. Give us the ability to make the weapons we want.

If you're going to "balance things", then balance them fully.